Well, that’s according to the Washington Post’s Jonathan Capehart, who was on Morning Joe today to discuss the pros and cons of Obama’s selection of Pastor Rick Warren to give the invocation at PEBO’s inauguration in Washington D.C. I won’t go into detail about what I think; I’ll just let you read the transcript I prepared. Trust me.. this one’s a doozy! I will say that the transcript begins right after Pat Buchanan is asking Jonathan if he thinks activist judges should make decisions for the country, instead of the people making those decisions.

CAPEHART: As an African-American, I’m perfectly fine with so-called activist judges trying to get people to do the right thing.

BUCHANAN: When you say ‘do the right thing,’ who decides what’s the right thing? The voters in 30 states have said ‘no, it’s the wrong thing,’ and you get some unelected judge says it’s the right thing. Who decides?

CAPEHART: And during the civil rights movement you had the people that if, given the opportunity to vote whether African-Americans should have the right to vote, the right to be full American citizens, they would have voted against it. Were it not for judges saying ‘this is what you must do,’…

BUCHANAN: Do you want Scalia deciding all of your issues, or would you like to have them decided by the people?

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CAPEHART: (laughter) Well, first I would like for it to…I like what’s happening with court decisions at state levels. Let it bubble up. It shouldn’t go right to Scalia, and certainly I wouldn’t want Scalia deciding the situation now.

BUCHANAN: Well, when you say bubble up…why not let the people decide?

CAPEHART: Well, you know, the people are deciding in a lot of states. People were upset about Proposition 8. Proposition 8 passed in California. But one thing that people haven’t focused on or paid attention to was what happened in Connecticut the next day. Gay marriage came through in Connecticut. Unfortunate…well, I’m not going to say ‘unfortunately,’ fortunately, the tide…the tide of history and the tide of demographics are on the side of equality for gays and lesbians. And the sooner…the sooner we get used to that, and also the sooner the gay movement gets used to that….

SCARBOROUGH: Jonathan…Jonathan, with all due respect…..

[…]

The gay rights movement has lost 30 in a row. That’s why gay activists are having to go to unelected judges to try to have judicial…to have this pass through judicial fiat, whether you agree with this issue or not.

CAPEHART: Look at it this way. Remember in 2000 when Vermont set up Civil Unions, and the firestorm that created? In the gay rights movement people were upset because this was second-class citizenship, ‘how dare they?’ ‘we want marriage!’

[…]

SCARBOROUGH: You know, you talked about a comparison between the civil rights movement and the gay marriage movement, and yet…

CAPEHART: No… gay rights movement.

SCARBOROUGH: Allright, gay rights movement and civil rights movement. That is a comparison that the overwhelming majority of African-Americans are opposed to.

CAPEHART: But guess what? Guess what?

SCARBOROUGH: Let me finish my point! If African-Americans; working-class African-Americans believed in gay marriage, like Richard Cohen and you and others believe in gay marriage, then it would have passed in California. It was the African-Americans that defeated gay marriage in California.

CAPEHART: Along with a lot of other people, and that’s a very good point and that’s a discussion. I asked this question of then-Senator Obama at the Human Rights Campaign Presidential Forum in August of last year, where I said “Senator, you know that there’s a homophobia problem in the black community, and, you know, what are you going to do about it? Are you going to speak out?”

SCARBOROUGH: Are you equating being against gay marriage to homophobia?

CAPEHART: Um…uh…no no!

[cross-talk]

SCARBOROUGH: I believe…hold on a second.

CAPEHART: Secretary of State Designate, Hillary Clinton is against gay marriage, Barack Obama is against gay marriage. But I also want to make the point, though, in terms of African-Americans, you’ve got NAACP Chairman, Julian Bond who is for gay marriage; you have the Reverend Al Sharpton, who is for gay marriage; you’ve got JOHN LEWIS, you’ve got…you’ve got…

SCARBOROUGH: Those are political alliances!

CAPEHART: You’ve got John Lewis who is for gay marriage.

SCARBOROUGH: Well, you know what? They’re way out of step…they’re way out of step with the overwhelming number of African-Americans they’re supposed to be leading.

CAPEHART: But they are leaders in the African-American community who could talk to African-Americans…

SCARBOROUGH: But Jonathan, I’m sorry. I’ve gotta ask one more question here, because this is something that troubles me. I’ll be really honest with you. Are you equating a gay man not being able to get a marriage certificate in Modesto, California with John Lewis being beaten over the head, his bus being set on fire by thugs in Selma, Alabama? Are you equating those two things?

CAPEHART: When it comes to basic rights and fighting for basic rights, yes. Now, is…is the person who’s…wait, wait, wait…wait a minute…

[cross-talk]

SCARBOROUGH: Does the right to eat at a lunch counter, the right…

CAPEHART: The guy who’s going to get a marriage license in Modesto, California is not being beaten over the head, is not being clubbed, watercannoned, have dogs…

SCARBOROUGH: He can work where he wants.

CAPEHART: You hope!

SCARBOROUGH: He can eat where he wants.

CAPEHART: You hope!

SCARBOROUGH: He can live where he wants.

CAPEHART: Maybe!

SCARBOROUGH: Okay, give me the story of a gay man, since 1977, that has not been allowed to live wherever he wants if he has enough money.

CAPEHART: Look, I, uh, I’m not gonna…uh…

[....]

BUCHANAN: Jonathan, why would you try to impose your views, which are clearly the minority views from everything Joe cites, on the majority of Americans who disagree profoundly with them, and believe deeply that that is wrong. They disagree and you say ‘maybe they’re homophobic’ or whatever, but you’re imposing your views and values on them, and that’s what you’re accusing the Christians of doing!

CAPEHART: I’m sorry, I don’t, I don’t see my pushing for basic civil rights for gays and lesbians……as pushing…as pushing

BUCHANAN: Well you’re saying they can’t live…they can’t live according to their beliefs.

CAPEHART: Look, if someone wants to deny me the ability to live a happy joyful life with someone I care about…

BUCHANAN: Well, who’s doing that?

MIKA: Well, no he wants the legal rights…he wants the legal rights that people have when they get married.

BUCHANAN: Marriage is an institution; civil and religious…

I wonder how John Lewis feels about this comparison?