Steve & Olaf on Greta, Talking About Their Ordeal – (VIDEOS)
***NEW CONTENT BELOW 08/31/06***
Greta Van Susteren had a very special show tonight. She had the first interview with Steve Centanni and Olaf Wiig since their release from their kidnapping and torture in Gaza City only this past Sunday, 08/27/06.
I was brought to tears when Olaf revealed that the kidnappers thought Steve was a CIA agent, military officer and spy, and told Olaf they were going to have to kill Steve. Olaf told them who he was, but somehow they had Googled Steve’s name and found out that he had been at Uday and Qusay’s home after their death, and they thought Steve might have been part of the military because of that, but apparently Olaf convinced them otherwise.
The apparent calm these two men display tonight is unbelievable, as none of us can imagine what they went through. We can all conjecture what we might have done or felt, but unless it is you, you just cannot even begin to imagine.
Steve demonstrating the pistols put to their heads
Olaf and Steve were later joined by Olaf’s wife, Anita McNaught and by Steve’s brother on the set. Greta kept reminding us that even though the rest of the world thought that Fox was doing or saying nothing about the incident on the air, movements and activities behind the scenes were flurried, and nobody at Fox was without worry. It was a very difficult day and weeks for the Fox family, as well as all other journalists around the world, I hope.
Steve and brother Ken
Anita and Olaf together again
Jennifer Griffin then comes in to the show tonight, and I gotta tell you; she’s my new SuperWoman for what she did to help get this resolved, along with Anita McKnaught.
These kidnappers are goons, thugs, blood-thirsty murderers who deserve nothing but swift justice. This is by far not the last we’ve heard of this story. Because of their “conversions” to Islam at gunpoint, and later denouncement of same, a lot of people are now fearing for them should they return to Gaza because they’ve now shunned “Islam,” which they had no other choice but to convert to lest they be killed. These were two very brave men, and the families behind them were and continue to be remarkable. I know the entire Fox family and “family” families are now breathing a sigh of relief now that they’re safely on American soil. I hope soon that Bush calls them to the White House and opens the doors for them. These guys need medals of honor for valor and heroism, and Anita McKnaught, Jennifer Griffin, and the JPS also deserve formal recognition for tirelelessly working for their release.
Jennifer Griffin on Greta
The one thing that comes from this is NEVER – GIVE – UP!
Warning – A couple of the videos below are large to retain integrity without interruption until the actual show breaks. If you want smaller, lower-res videos, email me at MsUnderestimated@gmail.com.
God bless these men, and protect them from further harm. And Steve and Olaf, I’m not trying to tell you guys what to do because I’m no expert, but I’ve read enough about Islam to know you guys can be in real danger now if you go back; especially if the video gets out (and you know it has via Al Jazeera) that you admitted you only “converted” at gunpoint because that was the only way to survive.
I have one last point I want my readers to ponder. Yes, Steve and Olaf are now released and back on American soil, but picture this in your mind. You’re in your home, Al Gore or John Kerry are sitting in office, and all of a sudden, your door bursts open in Middle America. There’s now a boot to your neck, you’re on the floor, an AK47 stuck to your head, and you’re told if you don’t convert to Islam, you’re going to be killed. What would you do? I don’t know what I would do at that moment, but I do know what I will do in ’06 and ’08 – and that is vote to keep the people in office who will make this the least likely possible scenario to happen here in my home. But remember, if the Jihadists have their way, it would be happening, and right on our doorsteps. We cannot afford to let the peace-at-any-price crowd blind us to what the true important issues are of this day: the protection of our country and our allies against global Jihad.
The video segments are here, here, here, here, and here.
God bless everyone at Fox, all my friends, all lovers of freedom everywhere; our President, our military men and women, and more importantly, God Bless the U.S.A.
P.S. I will try to post a partial transcript tomorrow, but it is too late tonight – I ran out of time. The videos are brilliant, and will give you goosebumps.
Ms. U
Also sent to Jo’s Cafe, bRight&Early, Blue Star Chronicles, and Stop the ACLU, Michelle Malkin, and HotAir. Again to Stop the ACLU, and Blue Star Chronicles reminds us of the part where Steve and Olaf said the terrorists didn’t like to be called “Islamic Fascists”. Was this comment also made at gunpoint?
***ADDITIONAL CONTENT***
If you thought THIS video was great, there’s another one on the Fox Fan page. (h/t to reader David)
This one lasts 11 minutes, 22 seconds, and it’s Steve and Olaf answering viewers’ questions who have emailed Greta. This is probably more insightful than the one that aired on Greta’s initial interview. Greta’s readers asked some darn good questions, and I loved the answers. A reader asks if they were angry, and I was glad to hear them both say they were. Steve again talked about how he was impressed with Fox News’ Jennifer Griffin and Eli Fasman, going up to shady bad guys yelling at them, basically telling them they were full of it, and they should go get something done! HA! You go, girl! I knew Jennifer had it in her for that. I could tell that neither she nor Anita McKnaught would ever stop until they got them freed. Thank you ladies.
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Islamofascists Don't Like Being Called Islamofasci…
Steven Centanni and Olaf Wiig are giving an interview of their experiences while being held hostage by islamofascists.
It turns out the kidnappers donÂ’t like being called islamofascists. They probably donÂ’t like being called jihadists either or mu…
I don't think they are heros, but I am relieved that they made it home alive. I don't blame them for faking their conversion. You do what you have to do to survive.
Islamofascists Don’t Like Being Called Islamofasci…
Steven Centanni and Olaf Wiig are giving an interview of their experiences while being held hostage by islamofascists.
It turns out the kidnappers donÂ’t like being called islamofascists. They probably donÂ’t like being called jihadists either or mu…
I don’t think they are heros, but I am relieved that they made it home alive. I don’t blame them for faking their conversion. You do what you have to do to survive.
Dear Fellow Infidels:
If you're ever in a similar situation just do what your enemy would do if the tables were reversed: lie, lie, lie. For those of you who aren't aware of it, the How to be a Real Believer Book (hint: starts with a “K”) specifically tells the “faithful” that it's OK to lie, cheat, steal, etc. etc. for “The Faith” when you're in a pickle with a worthless Infidel. So, what's-fair-for-the-goose being fair-for-the-gander, always remember to “convert” to Islam whenever you have to; it'll save your friends and relatives (and you) a lot on funeral expenses. Of course, if you're a died in the wool fanatic about your faith, you can always fight and refuse to pretend to “convert”. Your choice, as with everything else in life.
PS: Remember, when a Jihadist, Islamonutcase, etc., says he won't hurt you he's probably not telling the truth and you might as well act like you're on the 89th floor of the WTC and the date is 9-11. Let's roll.
First, thank you for posting the link to video of the interview. I watched it last night and found certain comments to be very informative and others to be quite alarming.
The term “islamofascism” has hit a nerve . . .good. Fox's Jennifer Griffin was absolutely amazing. She referred to the Friday 2 am meeting a circle jerk with Gaza's mafia dons. Michael Graham was fired from the Disney affiliate WMAL for similar characterizations. It is reporters like this, and the incredibly brave risks taken by those like Eli Fasman (FOX beaureau chief) that gain my respect for facing down the threat.
The unnerving aspect of this episode is that the kidnappers have too much personal information about Centani and Wiig. The forced conversions (discussed by Robert Spencer at JihadWatch.org today) place both Fox employees in extremely precarious positions. Regardless how much Centani professes his respect for mohammedanism – they know where he lives etc.
Jennifer Griffin stated in the interview that their investigation led them to the involvement of ONE family. She noted the Israeli drone overhead at the time they read the riot act to the “Dons of Gaza”. Perhaps the IDF will have special deliveries for this particular family and these individual dons fairly soon.
I also hope that Centani and Wiig can recollect some details of the conversations they overheard discussing Gilad Shalit, and his rescue/recovery comes soon.
Dear Fellow Infidels:
If you’re ever in a similar situation just do what your enemy would do if the tables were reversed: lie, lie, lie. For those of you who aren’t aware of it, the How to be a Real Believer Book (hint: starts with a “K”) specifically tells the “faithful” that it’s OK to lie, cheat, steal, etc. etc. for “The Faith” when you’re in a pickle with a worthless Infidel. So, what’s-fair-for-the-goose being fair-for-the-gander, always remember to “convert” to Islam whenever you have to; it’ll save your friends and relatives (and you) a lot on funeral expenses. Of course, if you’re a died in the wool fanatic about your faith, you can always fight and refuse to pretend to “convert”. Your choice, as with everything else in life.
PS: Remember, when a Jihadist, Islamonutcase, etc., says he won’t hurt you he’s probably not telling the truth and you might as well act like you’re on the 89th floor of the WTC and the date is 9-11. Let’s roll.
First, thank you for posting the link to video of the interview. I watched it last night and found certain comments to be very informative and others to be quite alarming.
The term “islamofascism” has hit a nerve . . .good. Fox’s Jennifer Griffin was absolutely amazing. She referred to the Friday 2 am meeting a circle jerk with Gaza’s mafia dons. Michael Graham was fired from the Disney affiliate WMAL for similar characterizations. It is reporters like this, and the incredibly brave risks taken by those like Eli Fasman (FOX beaureau chief) that gain my respect for facing down the threat.
The unnerving aspect of this episode is that the kidnappers have too much personal information about Centani and Wiig. The forced conversions (discussed by Robert Spencer at JihadWatch.org today) place both Fox employees in extremely precarious positions. Regardless how much Centani professes his respect for mohammedanism – they know where he lives etc.
Jennifer Griffin stated in the interview that their investigation led them to the involvement of ONE family. She noted the Israeli drone overhead at the time they read the riot act to the “Dons of Gaza”. Perhaps the IDF will have special deliveries for this particular family and these individual dons fairly soon.
I also hope that Centani and Wiig can recollect some details of the conversations they overheard discussing Gilad Shalit, and his rescue/recovery comes soon.
Videos of Kidnapped Fox Reporters' Interviews Available
MsUnderestimated has the videos of Steve and Olaf's Tuesday night interview with Greta Van Susteren here (scroll down toward the bottom), along with some excellent commentary. She has the video of their Wednesday interview with Shepard Smith here. This is must-see viewing.
Videos of Kidnapped Fox Reporters’ Interviews Available
MsUnderestimated has the videos of Steve and Olaf’s Tuesday night interview with Greta Van Susteren here (scroll down toward the bottom), along with some excellent commentary. She has the video of their Wednesday interview with Shepard Smith here. This is must-see viewing.
Centanni and Wiig…
Saw them both on Greta the other night. I'm glad both men came out of this alive….
Centanni and Wiig…
Saw them both on Greta the other night. I’m glad both men came out of this alive….
Do not plant the seeds of hate against the Islam terrorists,we are all unique people and we need to understand their sufferings as well.
let us plant only seeds of love,respect and kind words.
I was glad the men were released as I care about life,but let us care for both friends and the enemy if we truly want peace.
Do not plant the seeds of hate against the Islam terrorists,we are all unique people and we need to understand their sufferings as well.
let us plant only seeds of love,respect and kind words.
I was glad the men were released as I care about life,but let us care for both friends and the enemy if we truly want peace.
hey ANNE:
pardon me, but “dont plant the seeds of hate against the ISLAMIC TERRORISTS? “
ARE YOU KIDDING? If you meant don't generalize about all Muslims/followers of Islam, and dont spew hatred against the (mostly silent but) peaceful non terrorist Islamic/Arab Americans.. that I can buy…BUT
there is no need to “understand their sufferings” as well… Once they have chosen the path of hatred and terror, acting to destroy the lives and families of others out of a perverse twisted version of Islam, there is no further understanding. They are to be treated as pariah by all good people of all faiths and societies. ISLAMIC TERRORISTS cannot be “better understood”, nor “loved and cared for”. Appeasement will only encourage and patronizing them will only enrage them.
I hope and preay you didnt mean what you typed, because the alternative is that you have a incredibly illformed understanding of what is really going on in the world today.
peace be with you…and all of us someday. But wolves and coyotes and jackals must be kept from the cities and towns of civil peoples.
Anne, I think you posted yourself as Michele on another article. What planet are you from? That's the burning question for me!
hey ANNE:
pardon me, but “dont plant the seeds of hate against the ISLAMIC TERRORISTS? ”
ARE YOU KIDDING? If you meant don’t generalize about all Muslims/followers of Islam, and dont spew hatred against the (mostly silent but) peaceful non terrorist Islamic/Arab Americans.. that I can buy…BUT
there is no need to “understand their sufferings” as well… Once they have chosen the path of hatred and terror, acting to destroy the lives and families of others out of a perverse twisted version of Islam, there is no further understanding. They are to be treated as pariah by all good people of all faiths and societies. ISLAMIC TERRORISTS cannot be “better understood”, nor “loved and cared for”. Appeasement will only encourage and patronizing them will only enrage them.
I hope and preay you didnt mean what you typed, because the alternative is that you have a incredibly illformed understanding of what is really going on in the world today.
peace be with you…and all of us someday. But wolves and coyotes and jackals must be kept from the cities and towns of civil peoples.
Anne, I think you posted yourself as Michele on another article. What planet are you from? That’s the burning question for me!
Anne:
Do you not think that Nick Berg pleaded for his life, and begged for mercy? He was a contractor in Iraq. He was not a soldier. So, why did they saw his head off with basically a bowie knife? These terrorists know nothing about love nor mercy, and they think death is the greatest gift of all. They will never succumb to hugs, love, gratitude, forgiveness, or any other benevolent offering – it's not what they're out for. They are out for the complete and total destruction of all non-Muslims, or infidels, in the world. Either we convert, be subjugated, or we're killed. Don't you see that by now? The American contractors that were burned, tortured, mutilated, and hung from a bridge in Fallujah, were just contractors. They were not soldiers. So what should they have done? Your “peace at any price” argument does not correctly or logically coincide with the current Islamofascists with whom we are dealing. That's the reality of it.
Do you not understand? No matter how much love and understanding you would give them, if you are an infidel, they would cut your head off, too. They are not Democrat or Republican – they're Islamic extremists who have no tolerance for no one who does not bow to their “religion.”
Ms. U
Anne:
Do you not think that Nick Berg pleaded for his life, and begged for mercy? He was a contractor in Iraq. He was not a soldier. So, why did they saw his head off with basically a bowie knife? These terrorists know nothing about love nor mercy, and they think death is the greatest gift of all. They will never succumb to hugs, love, gratitude, forgiveness, or any other benevolent offering – it’s not what they’re out for. They are out for the complete and total destruction of all non-Muslims, or infidels, in the world. Either we convert, be subjugated, or we’re killed. Don’t you see that by now? The American contractors that were burned, tortured, mutilated, and hung from a bridge in Fallujah, were just contractors. They were not soldiers. So what should they have done? Your “peace at any price” argument does not correctly or logically coincide with the current Islamofascists with whom we are dealing. That’s the reality of it.
Do you not understand? No matter how much love and understanding you would give them, if you are an infidel, they would cut your head off, too. They are not Democrat or Republican – they’re Islamic extremists who have no tolerance for no one who does not bow to their “religion.”
Ms. U
I understand the threat,and yes,we are dealing with people who think god is so evil that he orders humans to be judged and killed by them.
But I also believe i hope and faith,and in Jesus and His words of love.
I think what pressed me to write was where you said that the men who took the two journalists were thugs,etc and that both were now in danger.
This,saying these terrorists are thugs without showing understandig to their problems breeds hate.
They did not kill these two men,one I know , because they are not killers or thugs.There is more to it than just that.It goes deeper than that.
Also,they did not really convert these two men.it was to not lose face,not show a weak side to their Islam but I believe their motive was not to kill but to try and make the world understand that they are not facists,but people who believe in their cause,whether right or not.
They would not have killed them,i knew deep down they would not kill them.
They are not in danger if they return.Sure,steve said the wrong thing and may wel have put other people`s lives in danger.He should not have told the world how they were frced at gunpoint to convert.
This was an insult to the terrorists,yes.
And some things are best left not said,private silence is wisdom.
But I do not think these terrorists who took them will kill.But they will humilate people by forcing conversion,and you say should we accept,or die.
I would die rather than allow a terrorist to force me to do what i did not want to do,and I am not a christian,but I would not desert Jesus who taught love and peace,rather than their god who teaches hate and fear.
I was in the army and lived throughout war,and i learnt that people say all sorts of things about the enemy yet,when i got close to the people thy put down,i found that most was lies or evil gossip as the enemy were really humans and most not as bad as many said.
I would rather fight for peace in this world which should be more mature and human now,than listen to the seeds of hate and blindly fight a war which may or may not be a just war.
I understand the threat,and yes,we are dealing with people who think god is so evil that he orders humans to be judged and killed by them.
But I also believe i hope and faith,and in Jesus and His words of love.
I think what pressed me to write was where you said that the men who took the two journalists were thugs,etc and that both were now in danger.
This,saying these terrorists are thugs without showing understandig to their problems breeds hate.
They did not kill these two men,one I know , because they are not killers or thugs.There is more to it than just that.It goes deeper than that.
Also,they did not really convert these two men.it was to not lose face,not show a weak side to their Islam but I believe their motive was not to kill but to try and make the world understand that they are not facists,but people who believe in their cause,whether right or not.
They would not have killed them,i knew deep down they would not kill them.
They are not in danger if they return.Sure,steve said the wrong thing and may wel have put other people`s lives in danger.He should not have told the world how they were frced at gunpoint to convert.
This was an insult to the terrorists,yes.
And some things are best left not said,private silence is wisdom.
But I do not think these terrorists who took them will kill.But they will humilate people by forcing conversion,and you say should we accept,or die.
I would die rather than allow a terrorist to force me to do what i did not want to do,and I am not a christian,but I would not desert Jesus who taught love and peace,rather than their god who teaches hate and fear.
I was in the army and lived throughout war,and i learnt that people say all sorts of things about the enemy yet,when i got close to the people thy put down,i found that most was lies or evil gossip as the enemy were really humans and most not as bad as many said.
I would rather fight for peace in this world which should be more mature and human now,than listen to the seeds of hate and blindly fight a war which may or may not be a just war.
Anne,
I don't know if you're technically an American citizen, but if you are…
Thank God we didn't have people like you calling the shots in WW2, or we would all be saluting the swastika right now.
Thank God we don't have people like you calling the shots today, or we would all have sores on our foreheads from bowing to Mecca every day at gunpoint.
Your comments show one of two possibilities: (1) Either you know absolutely nothing of the Islam faith, or (2) you are a muslim attempting to deceive your enemy in accordance with the doctrine of taqiyya, which allows you to say or do anything to further Islamic influence.
**********
ANNE STATED: “They would not have killed them,i knew deep down they would not kill them.”
**********
HAVE YOU COMPLETELY LOST ALL SANITY!
One does not even have to understand the intricacies of the Islamic faith, tradition, or law to understand the slaughter of innocent people in the name of Allah. They've killed hundreds of INNOCENT people already. Put down the Kool-Aid, and switch on the news or read it online once in a while.
Here's a list of some of the known innocent people that have been killed, contrary to your feelings deep down: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#At...
But wait, there are muslims who do not agree with the violent interpretation of jihad. Fine. What are they doing to stop the violence in the name of their god?
Are they speaking out against these terrorist groups (Hamas, Hezbullah, et. al.)?
Are they helping to provide intelligence, anti-propaganda campaigns, or even support for Islamic proponents of peace?
No, and why? Because if they did they would be killed for it by the Islamofascists. I've talked to muslims who don't agree with the terrorist groups, but they're not going to do or say anything against them. If you're not against them, then you're for them.
My problem is not with any particular muslim, it's with Islam and those whose belief lies in a literal interpretation of the Quran and hadith. Such beliefs require the killing of anyone who refuses to surrender the right to believe what they choose. Under Islam you have three choices: become muslim, become a slave to muslims, or die.
The Biblical Christian says, “I will die for what I believe”.
The Quranic Muslim says, “YOU will die for what I believe”.
Anne,
I don’t know if you’re technically an American citizen, but if you are…
Thank God we didn’t have people like you calling the shots in WW2, or we would all be saluting the swastika right now.
Thank God we don’t have people like you calling the shots today, or we would all have sores on our foreheads from bowing to Mecca every day at gunpoint.
Your comments show one of two possibilities: (1) Either you know absolutely nothing of the Islam faith, or (2) you are a muslim attempting to deceive your enemy in accordance with the doctrine of taqiyya, which allows you to say or do anything to further Islamic influence.
**********
ANNE STATED: “They would not have killed them,i knew deep down they would not kill them.”
**********
HAVE YOU COMPLETELY LOST ALL SANITY!
One does not even have to understand the intricacies of the Islamic faith, tradition, or law to understand the slaughter of innocent people in the name of Allah. They’ve killed hundreds of INNOCENT people already. Put down the Kool-Aid, and switch on the news or read it online once in a while.
Here’s a list of some of the known innocent people that have been killed, contrary to your feelings deep down: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks
But wait, there are muslims who do not agree with the violent interpretation of jihad. Fine. What are they doing to stop the violence in the name of their god?
Are they speaking out against these terrorist groups (Hamas, Hezbullah, et. al.)?
Are they helping to provide intelligence, anti-propaganda campaigns, or even support for Islamic proponents of peace?
No, and why? Because if they did they would be killed for it by the Islamofascists. I’ve talked to muslims who don’t agree with the terrorist groups, but they’re not going to do or say anything against them. If you’re not against them, then you’re for them.
My problem is not with any particular muslim, it’s with Islam and those whose belief lies in a literal interpretation of the Quran and hadith. Such beliefs require the killing of anyone who refuses to surrender the right to believe what they choose. Under Islam you have three choices: become muslim, become a slave to muslims, or die.
The Biblical Christian says, “I will die for what I believe”.
The Quranic Muslim says, “YOU will die for what I believe”.
Quick reply-No,I am not American,I am Zimbabwean,and since you believe that your way is the best way ,etc can I ask,why ,in this so called humane and modern world , why there is still no peace?
The Muslims?Or could it also be not only them but the fact that many people are wrong in many ways.
No,i am not Muslim,I am a Taoist and i know Islam is a valid and peaceful faith and as important as OUR faiths.
I do not agree with terrorism,or killings of innocents,but let us concentrate on the main point.These men were not killed,and I do not believe they would have been killed.
This is a modern world.When or where does peace begin,or will you always have an excuse to justify as to why it can never be?
There are ways but I will not go into it,I leave that to you,but I do hope for a more humane and a world which will breed more mature,more people who will step out of primitive hatreds and excuses,and say,No,we want peace and with faith we will get it.
Show fear to these terrorists,hit back,argue,and they have won.
They have already won,and you do not see it yet.
Quick reply-No,I am not American,I am Zimbabwean,and since you believe that your way is the best way ,etc can I ask,why ,in this so called humane and modern world , why there is still no peace?
The Muslims?Or could it also be not only them but the fact that many people are wrong in many ways.
No,i am not Muslim,I am a Taoist and i know Islam is a valid and peaceful faith and as important as OUR faiths.
I do not agree with terrorism,or killings of innocents,but let us concentrate on the main point.These men were not killed,and I do not believe they would have been killed.
This is a modern world.When or where does peace begin,or will you always have an excuse to justify as to why it can never be?
There are ways but I will not go into it,I leave that to you,but I do hope for a more humane and a world which will breed more mature,more people who will step out of primitive hatreds and excuses,and say,No,we want peace and with faith we will get it.
Show fear to these terrorists,hit back,argue,and they have won.
They have already won,and you do not see it yet.
Anne,
You should actually read and study what Islam teaches before you espouse it is peaceful.
**************************
“I do not agree with terrorism,or killings of innocents,but let us concentrate on the main point.”
**************************
THE MAIN POINT? THAT IS THE MAIN POINT!
THE MAIN POINT IS that the Islamic terrorists are killing innocent people. These two men were released only because they claimed to convert to Islam.
If you think that killing innocent people is a secondary issue, then there's one obvious problem with your philosophy.
**************************
“i know Islam is a valid and peaceful faith and as important as OUR faiths.”
**************************
You know that Islam is a peaceful belief? How? What evidence do you have of that? Where is the peaceful nature of Islam displayed? You say you know it's peaceful, yet you give
no indication as to why. Just because someone says they're peaceful doesn't mean they are.
The fact is that Islam is not peaceful. The word Islam mean “submission”. Their faith is built on forcing others to submit to their god and religion or become a slave.
Here are direct quotes from the Quran, the basis of muslim faith.
* Wherever there are people who refuse to convert to Islam, muslims are called on to fight them and kill them.
2:191 And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the
Sacred Mosque, unless they fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
* The ultimate goal of Islam is to destroy all other religions by any means until the whole world is Islamic. The only way for a person to not be killed is to become a muslim.
(The Quran does not respect the right of a person to believe what they choose.)
2:193 And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the
oppressors.
3:85 And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.
* Muslims should fight non-muslims and should harden their hearts against them.
9:123 O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who fight.
* Non-muslims are viewed as the lowest form of life.
8:55 Lo! the worst of beasts in Allah's sight are the ungrateful who will not believe.
* When fighting non-muslims, a muslim is required to fight to the death by Allah or else he will send them to hell.
8:15 O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them.
8:16 Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless manoeuvring for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be
hell, a hapless journey's end.
I've already given you a list of innocent people muslim terror groups have killed. That's not what I call peaceful.
Is the news filled with homicide bombing attacks by Taoist, Christian, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, or Shinto terrorists? This is something unique to Islam.
I think I've proven my point.
The fact is, if you're truly a Taoist and not only one by name, then you don't believe in the existence of evil (or good for that matter) as Taoism makes no provision for it. You
see everything as two sides of the same universe. Therefore, you are blind as to what is going on here and cannot see the truth of their hatred.
**************************
“These men were not killed,and I do not believe they would have been killed.”
**************************
Then you're ignoring all factual evidence to the contrary in favor of what you want to feel. You're blinding yourself to the truth so that you can justify your beliefs and
feelings.
**************************
“Show fear to these terrorists,hit back,argue,and they have won.
They have already won,and you do not see it yet.”
**************************
You speak of fear, because that's all you understand. Your pacifist attitude grants license to these murderers of innocent people. You claim to be against such murder, yet you
deny justice for such acts. The only people that these murderers have WON against are those who, like you, espouse that the best action is not to defend yourself against them,
which is to submit.
The United States was built on freedom: freedom of speech, assembly, AND RELIGION. In our country we highly regard our right to choose what we believe. The United States was
attacked and thousands of people killed. We defend ourselves from future attacks so that our people and children may be safe. The only way the terrorists can win is for those
who would fight to defend our freedom to lay down and surrender in fear, which is what you propose. Thankfully the brave men and women of our country will not allow fear to
override their faith.
What would you do if and when they came to your door? Would you submit and become a lackey and accomplice to the murdering yourself? Would you refuse to give up your right to
choose what you believe and be killed? Since you don't believe in defending yourself, that's not an option for you. Fortunately for you because the U.S. and several of their allies are fighting these murderers, you'll probably never have to face them. Though I doubt you will be grateful for such actions.
The only thing required for evil to win is for good men to do nothing.
I think you misunderstand many things I am saying,my first language is not English,it is NDBELE,from Matabeleland.
i do not ,and never said,that killing innocents is wrong.
However,you first say that you are not against Islam,then you talk as if all Islam is bad.
All faiths are not perfect.What about the torture and abuse of Islam men in the prison camps?Is this not wrong?
What about invading IRAQ ,IS this not wrong since it is inocents who end up mainly being killed?
Islam as a faith is meant to be peaceful.
The fanatics corrupt its messsage,just as other faiths corrupt their message if there are bad eggs amongst the groups.
At present you are rubbishing an entire faith because of some evil people who have corrupted the true message.
in fact,it is against their faith to kidnap or force conversion.
I do not agre with evil in faiths,but let us look at the beauty of those who are true in their faiths and look at individuals,not just at the evil.
The evil do not represent a faith,they represent something without meaning.
I am grateful steve and olaf were returned.I want an end to violence,hate and war.
I would like to see a peaceful and loving world.
we need to join hands in all faiths and talk,not fight.
Anne,
You should actually read and study what Islam teaches before you espouse it is peaceful.
**************************
“I do not agree with terrorism,or killings of innocents,but let us concentrate on the main point.”
**************************
THE MAIN POINT? THAT IS THE MAIN POINT!
THE MAIN POINT IS that the Islamic terrorists are killing innocent people. These two men were released only because they claimed to convert to Islam.
If you think that killing innocent people is a secondary issue, then there’s one obvious problem with your philosophy.
**************************
“i know Islam is a valid and peaceful faith and as important as OUR faiths.”
**************************
You know that Islam is a peaceful belief? How? What evidence do you have of that? Where is the peaceful nature of Islam displayed? You say you know it’s peaceful, yet you give
no indication as to why. Just because someone says they’re peaceful doesn’t mean they are.
The fact is that Islam is not peaceful. The word Islam mean “submission”. Their faith is built on forcing others to submit to their god and religion or become a slave.
Here are direct quotes from the Quran, the basis of muslim faith.
* Wherever there are people who refuse to convert to Islam, muslims are called on to fight them and kill them.
2:191 And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the
Sacred Mosque, unless they fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
* The ultimate goal of Islam is to destroy all other religions by any means until the whole world is Islamic. The only way for a person to not be killed is to become a muslim.
(The Quran does not respect the right of a person to believe what they choose.)
2:193 And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the
oppressors.
3:85 And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.
* Muslims should fight non-muslims and should harden their hearts against them.
9:123 O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who fight.
* Non-muslims are viewed as the lowest form of life.
8:55 Lo! the worst of beasts in Allah’s sight are the ungrateful who will not believe.
* When fighting non-muslims, a muslim is required to fight to the death by Allah or else he will send them to hell.
8:15 O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them.
8:16 Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless manoeuvring for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be
hell, a hapless journey’s end.
I’ve already given you a list of innocent people muslim terror groups have killed. That’s not what I call peaceful.
Is the news filled with homicide bombing attacks by Taoist, Christian, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, or Shinto terrorists? This is something unique to Islam.
I think I’ve proven my point.
The fact is, if you’re truly a Taoist and not only one by name, then you don’t believe in the existence of evil (or good for that matter) as Taoism makes no provision for it. You
see everything as two sides of the same universe. Therefore, you are blind as to what is going on here and cannot see the truth of their hatred.
**************************
“These men were not killed,and I do not believe they would have been killed.”
**************************
Then you’re ignoring all factual evidence to the contrary in favor of what you want to feel. You’re blinding yourself to the truth so that you can justify your beliefs and
feelings.
**************************
“Show fear to these terrorists,hit back,argue,and they have won.
They have already won,and you do not see it yet.”
**************************
You speak of fear, because that’s all you understand. Your pacifist attitude grants license to these murderers of innocent people. You claim to be against such murder, yet you
deny justice for such acts. The only people that these murderers have WON against are those who, like you, espouse that the best action is not to defend yourself against them,
which is to submit.
The United States was built on freedom: freedom of speech, assembly, AND RELIGION. In our country we highly regard our right to choose what we believe. The United States was
attacked and thousands of people killed. We defend ourselves from future attacks so that our people and children may be safe. The only way the terrorists can win is for those
who would fight to defend our freedom to lay down and surrender in fear, which is what you propose. Thankfully the brave men and women of our country will not allow fear to
override their faith.
What would you do if and when they came to your door? Would you submit and become a lackey and accomplice to the murdering yourself? Would you refuse to give up your right to
choose what you believe and be killed? Since you don’t believe in defending yourself, that’s not an option for you. Fortunately for you because the U.S. and several of their allies are fighting these murderers, you’ll probably never have to face them. Though I doubt you will be grateful for such actions.
The only thing required for evil to win is for good men to do nothing.
Anne, Anne, Anne,
Emotions aren’t proof of your claims. Your feelings are beside the point.
*******************
“However,you first say that you are not against Islam,then you talk as if all Islam is bad.â€
*******************
I think you’ve misunderstood my comments. Let me restate them as clear as I can.
I am not against any particular muslim, I AM against any religion or belief system that espouses the killing of those who refuse to believe in it, as I’ve shown is stated in the Quran. Subsequently I am also against anyone who carries out such atrocities.
My evaluation of Islam is based upon what is written within its teachings. That does not necessarily trickle down to every muslim.
Each person is responsible for their own actions. If a person chooses to be muslim, I have no problem with that. If they choose to kill those who don’t believe as they do, I do have a problem with that.
*******************
All faiths are not perfect.What about the torture and abuse of Islam men in the prison camps?Is this not wrong?
*******************
First, I don’t know to what you’re referring. If you’re referring to the Gitmo POW facility, then you’re making unsubstantiated claims. There has never been proof of torture at Gitmo to my knowledge. Maybe you don’t know what torture is. Follow this link if you want to see what torture was like under the rule of Saddam Hussein.
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/092559.php
Second, even if there were torture going on there, what religion are you saying is responsible for it? It’s a government/military facility.
*******************
I do not agre with evil in faiths,but let us look at the beauty of those who are true in their faiths and look at individuals,not just at the evil.
*******************
No. Let us look at all sides of the matter, and let us look at the teachings of the religion itself and weigh the evidence. If Islam teaches peace it should be clear in the Quran. If it teaches violence it should also be clear. I’ve already given references where it does espouse violence against non-muslims.
There are peaceful muslims, no doubt. There are also violent muslims. But to be a peaceful muslim you have to deny the passages of the Quran that I have cited previously.
*******************
I am grateful steve and olaf were returned.
*******************
I am also glad that two of my fellow countrymen, innocent individuals, were spared the deaths that so many others have received from these violent murderers.
*******************
we need to join hands in all faiths and talk,not fight.
*******************
A lovely sentiment. I’m sure then you’ll join us in demanding that the muslim terrorists stop attacking innocent civilians and put an end to the hostilities. Stop the homicide bombings, car bombings, capturing and then executing innocent people, and the list goes on. The premise is simple: Stop attacking us, and we won’t have to defend ourselves.
————————-
You’ve given no proof of your claims that Islam is peaceful. You’ve stated several times that your beliefs are based on your feelings. Any clear-minded person knows that feelings do not hold truth, they are emotional reactions.
Therefore, I don’t think there’s any point to trying to provide you with logical information. You’re working off of emotions.
I sincerely hope that you will actually look at, read and study the things I’ve given you. Try to keep and open mind, open eyes, and an open heart (for the victims, not the murderers). I believe you should have the freedom to choose to be Taoist, but under Islamic law you would not. If you’re going to debate with others you should have something more to back up your statements than your emotions.
God bless.
I think you misunderstand many things I am saying,my first language is not English,it is NDBELE,from Matabeleland.
i do not ,and never said,that killing innocents is wrong.
However,you first say that you are not against Islam,then you talk as if all Islam is bad.
All faiths are not perfect.What about the torture and abuse of Islam men in the prison camps?Is this not wrong?
What about invading IRAQ ,IS this not wrong since it is inocents who end up mainly being killed?
Islam as a faith is meant to be peaceful.
The fanatics corrupt its messsage,just as other faiths corrupt their message if there are bad eggs amongst the groups.
At present you are rubbishing an entire faith because of some evil people who have corrupted the true message.
in fact,it is against their faith to kidnap or force conversion.
I do not agre with evil in faiths,but let us look at the beauty of those who are true in their faiths and look at individuals,not just at the evil.
The evil do not represent a faith,they represent something without meaning.
I am grateful steve and olaf were returned.I want an end to violence,hate and war.
I would like to see a peaceful and loving world.
we need to join hands in all faiths and talk,not fight.
Anne, Anne, Anne,
Emotions aren’t proof of your claims. Your feelings are beside the point.
*******************
“However,you first say that you are not against Islam,then you talk as if all Islam is bad.â€
*******************
I think you’ve misunderstood my comments. Let me restate them as clear as I can.
I am not against any particular muslim, I AM against any religion or belief system that espouses the killing of those who refuse to believe in it, as I’ve shown is stated in the Quran. Subsequently I am also against anyone who carries out such atrocities.
My evaluation of Islam is based upon what is written within its teachings. That does not necessarily trickle down to every muslim.
Each person is responsible for their own actions. If a person chooses to be muslim, I have no problem with that. If they choose to kill those who don’t believe as they do, I do have a problem with that.
*******************
All faiths are not perfect.What about the torture and abuse of Islam men in the prison camps?Is this not wrong?
*******************
First, I don’t know to what you’re referring. If you’re referring to the Gitmo POW facility, then you’re making unsubstantiated claims. There has never been proof of torture at Gitmo to my knowledge. Maybe you don’t know what torture is. Follow this link if you want to see what torture was like under the rule of Saddam Hussein.
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/092559.php
Second, even if there were torture going on there, what religion are you saying is responsible for it? It’s a government/military facility.
*******************
I do not agre with evil in faiths,but let us look at the beauty of those who are true in their faiths and look at individuals,not just at the evil.
*******************
No. Let us look at all sides of the matter, and let us look at the teachings of the religion itself and weigh the evidence. If Islam teaches peace it should be clear in the Quran. If it teaches violence it should also be clear. I’ve already given references where it does espouse violence against non-muslims.
There are peaceful muslims, no doubt. There are also violent muslims. But to be a peaceful muslim you have to deny the passages of the Quran that I have cited previously.
*******************
I am grateful steve and olaf were returned.
*******************
I am also glad that two of my fellow countrymen, innocent individuals, were spared the deaths that so many others have received from these violent murderers.
*******************
we need to join hands in all faiths and talk,not fight.
*******************
A lovely sentiment. I’m sure then you’ll join us in demanding that the muslim terrorists stop attacking innocent civilians and put an end to the hostilities. Stop the homicide bombings, car bombings, capturing and then executing innocent people, and the list goes on. The premise is simple: Stop attacking us, and we won’t have to defend ourselves.
————————-
You’ve given no proof of your claims that Islam is peaceful. You’ve stated several times that your beliefs are based on your feelings. Any clear-minded person knows that feelings do not hold truth, they are emotional reactions.
Therefore, I don’t think there’s any point to trying to provide you with logical information. You’re working off of emotions.
I sincerely hope that you will actually look at, read and study the things I’ve given you. Try to keep and open mind, open eyes, and an open heart (for the victims, not the murderers). I believe you should have the freedom to choose to be Taoist, but under Islamic law you would not. If you’re going to debate with others you should have something more to back up your statements than your emotions.
God bless.
i meant,killing innocents is wrong, yes,and i never said it was not or agreed it was not.
i meant,killing innocents is wrong, yes,and i never said it was not or agreed it was not.
Screaming Eagle, you've gone above and beyond what anyone else would have done… good job, my friend. Good job.
Screaming Eagle, you’ve gone above and beyond what anyone else would have done… good job, my friend. Good job.
I was making reference to where the soldiers are known to have sexually abused Muslims in Iraq as according to the news,put hoods on them and other things.Is Bush and his soldiers not christians?
Is demanding an end to violence from these Muslims ,does it mean going down the road where we become as bad as they?
I would join you in the war for peace but I believe all life is sacred and I would only kill if someone was stronger than me.I do not kill inocents,and i do not kill the weakest.
For your info,I was in a war as a soldier,i have seen the horrors,deaths,the lies,that when an enemy is killed,it is a human being who may not be the true enemy as we are fed to believe.
Do not be blinded by hate and lies.
Christians do not have a great histoy from their past horros and tortures,i believe all religion is responsible for todays wars.
We should treat people as individuals and realise that certain mad groups can corrupt the truth in each faith.
From my studies of each faith,Islam is meant to be a peaceful faith.
Some have corrupted it but i look at individuals,not only at the bad eggs.
You explain things well,i am grateful for that as you are very intlligent and know more than I do,so thankyou.
I too am grateful for their release,both are not American though,and i do care that they are safe.
Sorry-Where is USA defending herself?
Against Iraq ? There is evidence that Iraq had nothing to do with 9 11.Why is USA in a country which is not theirs acting like police when it is not their country ?
So , your hatred against Islam has blinded you.
Does christianity have a fine history .Did Jesus not tell you to turn the other cheek and love the enemy?
It was in the news that soldiers sexually abused and hooded Muslims.Why ? Why did they do this? Are you saying this was not in the news now ? Are these soldiers not christian ? What are they ?
Is Bush a christian and why has he ordered a war of which he had no right,which killed possible innocents and why did he lie when it is fact now that he had no right or evidence to invade Iraq?
So,tell me,why or how are you defending yourselves when you are clearly not.
Don`t tell us that Islam is the only evil religion.
Christianity has a history to be ashamed of,and it is not following the truth or words of Jesus.
If you stop showing hate towards Islam then perhaps there might be progress.
IT TAKES TWO TO BE WRONG,NOT JUST ONE.
I was making reference to where the soldiers are known to have sexually abused Muslims in Iraq as according to the news,put hoods on them and other things.Is Bush and his soldiers not christians?
Is demanding an end to violence from these Muslims ,does it mean going down the road where we become as bad as they?
I would join you in the war for peace but I believe all life is sacred and I would only kill if someone was stronger than me.I do not kill inocents,and i do not kill the weakest.
For your info,I was in a war as a soldier,i have seen the horrors,deaths,the lies,that when an enemy is killed,it is a human being who may not be the true enemy as we are fed to believe.
Do not be blinded by hate and lies.
Christians do not have a great histoy from their past horros and tortures,i believe all religion is responsible for todays wars.
We should treat people as individuals and realise that certain mad groups can corrupt the truth in each faith.
From my studies of each faith,Islam is meant to be a peaceful faith.
Some have corrupted it but i look at individuals,not only at the bad eggs.
You explain things well,i am grateful for that as you are very intlligent and know more than I do,so thankyou.
I too am grateful for their release,both are not American though,and i do care that they are safe.
Sorry-Where is USA defending herself?
Against Iraq ? There is evidence that Iraq had nothing to do with 9 11.Why is USA in a country which is not theirs acting like police when it is not their country ?
So , your hatred against Islam has blinded you.
Does christianity have a fine history .Did Jesus not tell you to turn the other cheek and love the enemy?
It was in the news that soldiers sexually abused and hooded Muslims.Why ? Why did they do this? Are you saying this was not in the news now ? Are these soldiers not christian ? What are they ?
Is Bush a christian and why has he ordered a war of which he had no right,which killed possible innocents and why did he lie when it is fact now that he had no right or evidence to invade Iraq?
So,tell me,why or how are you defending yourselves when you are clearly not.
Don`t tell us that Islam is the only evil religion.
Christianity has a history to be ashamed of,and it is not following the truth or words of Jesus.
If you stop showing hate towards Islam then perhaps there might be progress.
IT TAKES TWO TO BE WRONG,NOT JUST ONE.
Anne said: “…soldiers are known to have sexually abused Muslims in Iraq, according to the news.”
I ask: “Are you serious? You believe everything you see on the news?”
Anne asked: “Is Bush and his soldiers not christians?:
I ask: “Bush is a Christian, and so are most of his soldiers, but just as you say all Islamics cannot be judged by the behavior of a few, how then can you lump what a few fringe kooks have done in with President Bush?”
Anne, you really are a lost cause. It's not even worth arguing with you anymore.
Anne said: “…soldiers are known to have sexually abused Muslims in Iraq, according to the news.”
I ask: “Are you serious? You believe everything you see on the news?”
Anne asked: “Is Bush and his soldiers not christians?:
I ask: “Bush is a Christian, and so are most of his soldiers, but just as you say all Islamics cannot be judged by the behavior of a few, how then can you lump what a few fringe kooks have done in with President Bush?”
Anne, you really are a lost cause. It’s not even worth arguing with you anymore.
Clearly you do not like the truth being told about your people`s errors,yet can freely run down those you hate.
Then,you abuse people who do not say what you want to hear.
you want people to say that islam is evil but Bush and christians are good.
you are the lost cause,not me,your attitude is causing this hate and these wars,so live with it.
you lost the argument,not I.
yes,this is a waste of time,you are all too filled with childish hate and petty excuses.
you have not said anything that shows love or empathy,as Jesus commanded.
goodbye.
Thankyoiu though for your thoughts,i respect all people`s beliefs but we must wipe out hate
Clearly you do not like the truth being told about your people`s errors,yet can freely run down those you hate.
Then,you abuse people who do not say what you want to hear.
you want people to say that islam is evil but Bush and christians are good.
you are the lost cause,not me,your attitude is causing this hate and these wars,so live with it.
you lost the argument,not I.
yes,this is a waste of time,you are all too filled with childish hate and petty excuses.
you have not said anything that shows love or empathy,as Jesus commanded.
goodbye.
Thankyoiu though for your thoughts,i respect all people`s beliefs but we must wipe out hate
chairya,
In looking at the length of my response to your wild statements, I’ll shorten it a bit and just hit the highlights.
*********
CHAIRYA:
Sorry-Where is USA defending herself?
Against Iraq ? There is evidence that Iraq had nothing to do with 9 11.Why is USA in a country which is not theirs acting like police when it is not their country ?
*********
The U.S. defends itself from all enemies who attack it. Today is September 11, five years after radical Islamic terrorists committed a gross act of mass murder killing 2,996 people. As I’ve stated earlier, we wage war against terrorists to stop future attacks from killing our people. This is called pre-emptive or pro-active defense. We don’t wait until our people are dead to defend them.
If you have proof that Saddam Hussein’s regime was not involved in supporting terrorism, as you claim, you should come forward with it immediately. The news agencies in our country would run the story non-stop for weeks, and you would be famous. Hussein’s trial is coming to a close, so the information probably wouldn’t help him, but give it up so that we can all know.
Contrary to your claims, Hussein openly offered monetary awards to the families of a person who committed homicide bombings upon American targets, essentially funding terrorism. (I think it was a value of $25,000 US for each act.)
Hussein made statements praising the 9/11 attack and called the attackers “good muslimsâ€.
Hussein mass murdered his own people who openly spoke out against him and terror attacks against other nations. (Plenty of photo evidence for this one.) This is a form of terrorism that still is practiced today elsewhere.
Hussein’s Iraq was one of the most powerful nations in the Mid-East. As long as he continued to aid terrorists, the threat to America would remain high.
There’s other evidence, but I want to respond to your other statements and this post is going to be long.
*********
Does christianity have a fine history .Did Jesus not tell you to turn the other cheek and love the enemy?
*********
Notice that you want to compare the HISTORY of Christianity with the PRESENT of Islam. That’s called comparing apples to oranges, a phrase that indicates it’s an invalid comparison.
But if you want to look at the words of Jesus, I can think of no greater topic.
Like yourself, many people attempt to quote Jesus’ words to attack Christianity or try to accuse America of being the evil force in the war on terrorism without actually having read the Bible.
If you will read the Bible, you will see that God makes different statements to individuals than He does to nations and governments. This is because a government has different goals and responsibilities from those of an individual. For example, a nation is responsible to God for protecting the people whom it governs. An individual may serve in this capacity, but first has the responsibility of protecting and providing for their own family.
Jesus taught love, peace and brotherhood in Him. He did not teach that a people or nation should standby idly and allow their men, women and children to be exterminated. Forgiveness is not a government/military policy, it is a way in which a Christian should live their lives. Again, the responsibilities of a nation and an individual are different. For example, a nation/government has the right to impose the death penalty to protect its citizens from murderers, individuals do not.
Contrary to Jesus and the Bible, the teachings of Mohammed or Allah (whatever) show that muslims should kill kafir (infidels, non-muslims) wherever they find them. Read the Quran and see my quoted passages above. The point to Islam is to seek out disbelievers and murder them if they don’t capitulate or “submit†and either become muslim or a slave to muslims.
Now, not all muslims completely follow what the Quran teaches. If they did, I wouldn’t have a muslim friend, who happens to be from Lebanon, because the Quran says that a muslim is not to befriend unbelievers. So those who do not espouse a belief in killing unbelievers, are not the problem. Muslims, like the terrorist groups, who follow precisely what the Quran teaches are the problem.
*********
It was in the news that soldiers sexually abused and hooded Muslims.Why ? Why did they do this? Are you saying this was not in the news now ?
*********
First of all, not all news agencies are dedicated to the truth. We’ve recently seen that some news media personnel, like reporters for Reuters (hey that rhymes), actually fabricate stories and embellish the facts for the purposes of spreading propaganda. So try to confirm facts from multiple, unrelated sources before you believe what you hear, see or read.
Secondly, our judicial system carries the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. When someone is accused of committing a crime, our officials investigate it and bring the evidence and the accused to justice. Until they are proven guilty, however, they are innocent. We don’t hold to the doctrine of imprisoning a person simply because someone doesn’t like them, such as those with an anti-American agenda.
There have been cases where soldiers have been falsely accused, and ones where they have been found guilty. Either way, it’s been the American military/judicial system that’s seen justice done. Something I’m very proud of. We’re fighting for our survival but still holding to the integrity that makes our nation great.
Would terrorists do the same? No. Terrorists abuse American and other POWs as a course of their normal mode of operation. Our POWs do not get the protection that the captive terrorists do.
*********
Are these soldiers not christian ? What are they ?
*********
An unusual statement, because the answer to your question is…in your question. What are these soldiers? Well, they’re…soldiers. The U.S. armed forces are comprised of people from practically every faith and religion (including muslims), and even those who don’t have a religion at all. Being Christian is not a prerequisite to serving in our military.
*********
CHAIRYA:
IT TAKES TWO TO BE WRONG,NOT JUST ONE.
*********
Wow, this one is way out there. It takes two to be wrong? So when one person states the truth and another one denies it, they have to both be wrong? No, it only takes one person to be wrong.
But this is not about being right or wrong. It’s about stopping people who are bent on genocide, which just happens to be right. If the terrorists would stop attacking, capturing/executing, and bombing innocent civilians, they wouldn’t be under fire. It’s just that simple.
————
Wow, this was a long post, but you made some pretty wild statements, so.
chairya,
In looking at the length of my response to your wild statements, I’ll shorten it a bit and just hit the highlights.
*********
CHAIRYA:
Sorry-Where is USA defending herself?
Against Iraq ? There is evidence that Iraq had nothing to do with 9 11.Why is USA in a country which is not theirs acting like police when it is not their country ?
*********
The U.S. defends itself from all enemies who attack it. Today is September 11, five years after radical Islamic terrorists committed a gross act of mass murder killing 2,996 people. As I’ve stated earlier, we wage war against terrorists to stop future attacks from killing our people. This is called pre-emptive or pro-active defense. We don’t wait until our people are dead to defend them.
If you have proof that Saddam Hussein’s regime was not involved in supporting terrorism, as you claim, you should come forward with it immediately. The news agencies in our country would run the story non-stop for weeks, and you would be famous. Hussein’s trial is coming to a close, so the information probably wouldn’t help him, but give it up so that we can all know.
Contrary to your claims, Hussein openly offered monetary awards to the families of a person who committed homicide bombings upon American targets, essentially funding terrorism. (I think it was a value of $25,000 US for each act.)
Hussein made statements praising the 9/11 attack and called the attackers “good muslimsâ€.
Hussein mass murdered his own people who openly spoke out against him and terror attacks against other nations. (Plenty of photo evidence for this one.) This is a form of terrorism that still is practiced today elsewhere.
Hussein’s Iraq was one of the most powerful nations in the Mid-East. As long as he continued to aid terrorists, the threat to America would remain high.
There’s other evidence, but I want to respond to your other statements and this post is going to be long.
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Does christianity have a fine history .Did Jesus not tell you to turn the other cheek and love the enemy?
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Notice that you want to compare the HISTORY of Christianity with the PRESENT of Islam. That’s called comparing apples to oranges, a phrase that indicates it’s an invalid comparison.
But if you want to look at the words of Jesus, I can think of no greater topic.
Like yourself, many people attempt to quote Jesus’ words to attack Christianity or try to accuse America of being the evil force in the war on terrorism without actually having read the Bible.
If you will read the Bible, you will see that God makes different statements to individuals than He does to nations and governments. This is because a government has different goals and responsibilities from those of an individual. For example, a nation is responsible to God for protecting the people whom it governs. An individual may serve in this capacity, but first has the responsibility of protecting and providing for their own family.
Jesus taught love, peace and brotherhood in Him. He did not teach that a people or nation should standby idly and allow their men, women and children to be exterminated. Forgiveness is not a government/military policy, it is a way in which a Christian should live their lives. Again, the responsibilities of a nation and an individual are different. For example, a nation/government has the right to impose the death penalty to protect its citizens from murderers, individuals do not.
Contrary to Jesus and the Bible, the teachings of Mohammed or Allah (whatever) show that muslims should kill kafir (infidels, non-muslims) wherever they find them. Read the Quran and see my quoted passages above. The point to Islam is to seek out disbelievers and murder them if they don’t capitulate or “submit†and either become muslim or a slave to muslims.
Now, not all muslims completely follow what the Quran teaches. If they did, I wouldn’t have a muslim friend, who happens to be from Lebanon, because the Quran says that a muslim is not to befriend unbelievers. So those who do not espouse a belief in killing unbelievers, are not the problem. Muslims, like the terrorist groups, who follow precisely what the Quran teaches are the problem.
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It was in the news that soldiers sexually abused and hooded Muslims.Why ? Why did they do this? Are you saying this was not in the news now ?
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First of all, not all news agencies are dedicated to the truth. We’ve recently seen that some news media personnel, like reporters for Reuters (hey that rhymes), actually fabricate stories and embellish the facts for the purposes of spreading propaganda. So try to confirm facts from multiple, unrelated sources before you believe what you hear, see or read.
Secondly, our judicial system carries the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. When someone is accused of committing a crime, our officials investigate it and bring the evidence and the accused to justice. Until they are proven guilty, however, they are innocent. We don’t hold to the doctrine of imprisoning a person simply because someone doesn’t like them, such as those with an anti-American agenda.
There have been cases where soldiers have been falsely accused, and ones where they have been found guilty. Either way, it’s been the American military/judicial system that’s seen justice done. Something I’m very proud of. We’re fighting for our survival but still holding to the integrity that makes our nation great.
Would terrorists do the same? No. Terrorists abuse American and other POWs as a course of their normal mode of operation. Our POWs do not get the protection that the captive terrorists do.
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Are these soldiers not christian ? What are they ?
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An unusual statement, because the answer to your question is…in your question. What are these soldiers? Well, they’re…soldiers. The U.S. armed forces are comprised of people from practically every faith and religion (including muslims), and even those who don’t have a religion at all. Being Christian is not a prerequisite to serving in our military.
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CHAIRYA:
IT TAKES TWO TO BE WRONG,NOT JUST ONE.
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Wow, this one is way out there. It takes two to be wrong? So when one person states the truth and another one denies it, they have to both be wrong? No, it only takes one person to be wrong.
But this is not about being right or wrong. It’s about stopping people who are bent on genocide, which just happens to be right. If the terrorists would stop attacking, capturing/executing, and bombing innocent civilians, they wouldn’t be under fire. It’s just that simple.
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Wow, this was a long post, but you made some pretty wild statements, so.